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Yes , I think without them too much triangulation is lost and also the .095 tubing wall is too thin to begin with. I'm no engineer either, but even when they're presumed to be properly shimmed, there's still enough force from somewhere to make them crack. I think its worse on a trike frame since it basically wants to go straight at speed . When the wheel is turned the force is going back into the steering head and down tubes and wanting to twist it somewhat until its neutralized. And I agree that attaching them to the engine helps keep that in check and can only help. Bill Alexander would be a good one to comment on this. He is an engineer !

I also think it would be better if the frames had thicker wall tubing, it wouldn't amount to much difference in money and it wouldn't gain more than ten pounds.

CanuckHoss wrote:

Imzz4 wrote:I'm sure Ricky has this on his huge "plate" of issues to look into. But I want to add this too. Some of the earlier frames also cracked at the top shock mounts. Some then had theirs modified with gusset plates or fabricated "triangulation rods" that bolted in place at the shock bolt and passenger peg hole as a precaution. I don't remember who it was , but his post said he hit a large hole and the frame broke at the shocks, and caused the seat pan to move forward enough to knock the dist cap off. That shut the motor off immediately and he got off the road ok. Scary stuff but worth bringing up if its still the same design.

I believe the 2001 and up frames had the gusset in the rear section in front of the shock mounts...fixed the problem...

Barry my bike is a 2003 and it does not have any gussets.

I finally got a chance to take a picture of my front frame motor mounts , not as pretty as some but do the job .Only one picture but both sides are the same .

SQ4MN wrote:
Barry my bike is a 2003 and it does not have any gussets.

I am wrong then....wonder what year they started...I will look at the '04 in the shop tomorrow

Looks solid Jack,

And they are tucked out of sight. It wouldn't take long to sand and polish to a lovely finish before fitting.

Is the rear 'clamp' (left in the photo) bolted to the head?
It doesn't look like the bolt we can see compresses the clamps...

I would love a sketch of the design to understand it better and get a pair made up in the UK.

Thanks,
Gordon

GordonBH wrote:Looks solid Jack,

And they are tucked out of sight. It wouldn't take long to sand and polish to a lovely finish before fitting.

Is the rear 'clamp' (left in the photo) bolted to the head?
It doesn't look like the bolt we can see compresses the clamps...

I would love a sketch of the design to understand it better and get a pair made up in the UK.

Thanks,
Gordon

The clamp is bored to 1 1/2" and is clamped tight to the down tube .That's just the gap between the clamp after it is tightened around the tube .In other words I had the clamps spaced apart when they were bored to 1 1/2" . I made a plate that bolts to the front of the head because the taped holes in the head do not line up with the clamp bolts . The clamps are spaced perfectly between the plate and the tube so as not to place any pressure either pushing or pulling on the down tube . Believe me it may not look it but this whole set up is precision made but just not as pretty as some and it works perfectly .

The motor mounts don't show that much but someday I'll remove them and polish the shit out of them .

Mikie v wrote:Here's my broken mount (front-right) about 8500 miles. notice the washers used as shims. After I installed the new one I made a spacer, fits better and looks better.

Exact same spot and mileage as mine "Mikie v" ! But as said on mine, it was crack in the power coat that I noticed.
I should put this bracket in a vice and put some torque on it, to see how far it was from ending up like yours ?
These upper right front mounts have a vertical oblong hole in them, where they bolt to the frame. So no matter how tight you make the bolt, it will work lose. You can see where the grade-8 bolt wears at this oblong hole, from side to side. Craig

Mikie v wrote:Here's my broken mount (front-right) about 8500 miles. notice the washers used as shims. After I installed the new one I made a spacer, fits better and looks better.

What year is your bike? I have a 2003 with a 350 ZZ4 but my right front mount is different than yours. What engine is in your bike?

hogv8 wrote:

20160430_152128.jpg

I finally got a chance to take a picture of my front frame motor mounts , not as pretty as some but do the job .Only one picture but both sides are the same .

I made my mounts much the same. I used my old radiator mounts, some steel plate, a few spacers and some socket head cap screws
See 'em here http://jkcallin.blogspot.com/2010/11/yo ... t-kid.html

CanuckHoss wrote:

SQ4MN wrote:
Barry my bike is a 2003 and it does not have any gussets.

I am wrong then....wonder what year they started...I will look at the '04 in the shop tomorrow

I don't believe my '05 had the gussets but my '09 does.

Sonny wrote:

CanuckHoss wrote:

SQ4MN wrote:
Barry my bike is a 2003 and it does not have any gussets.

I am wrong then....wonder what year they started...I will look at the '04 in the shop tomorrow

I don't believe my '05 had the gussets but my '09 does.

I checked the 04 SB in the shop...no gussets...

Mikie v wrote:Here's my broken mount (front-right) about 8500 miles. notice the washers used as shims. After I installed the new one I made a spacer, fits better and looks better.

Looking back, when I checked my motor mounts years ago ( I have a 2008 ZZ4 trike) they were a little bit loose but not cracked. Then is when I too removed those ugly shims and switched over to chrome spacers. I check them periodically, NEVER to find them loose again! I guess I was lucky on making the switch early on. I now have over 25,000 miles on the trike. I honestly believe with multiple shims they will tend to loosen up more than with ONE spacer of the correct dimension. IMO

Jack, I can't find the pics of the rear frame braces I made up, but it was your good idea and did not require any welding. Do you have pics of the ones on yours. Seems to me I saw your pics then copied it.

Imzz4 wrote:Jack, I can't find the pics of the rear frame braces I made up, but it was your good idea and did not require any welding. Do you have pics of the ones on yours. Seems to me I saw your pics then copied it.

It wasn't me Jeff , my 2000 doesn't have gussets or any kind of rear frame braces . If I ever have the rear section apart I'll add braces or gussets and have the rear section powder coated .
However I don't think all frames need gussets . Some frames just seem to be weak at that point but not all of them IMHO .

Is, the frame cracking issue just the down tubes where they bolt to the engine. When I've read about frames cracking I assumed it was the head stock ?

knockdolian wrote:Is, the frame cracking issue just the down tubes where they bolt to the engine. When I've read about frames cracking I assumed it was the head stock ?

Bikes..not trikes...rear section just in front of the shock mount

Strange bikes and not trikes when a trike front end is subject to so much more stress ?

While looking at the photos Grand Canard posted of new bikes under construct I noticed that the engine bars were bolted on. This is probably old news to most of you but mine are welded on. Is that how it was done in the old days ? It was just an observation but wouldn't welded ones go a long way to strengthening the down tubes ?

SQ4MN wrote:

Mikie v wrote:Here's my broken mount (front-right) about 8500 miles. notice the washers used as shims. After I installed the new one I made a spacer, fits better and looks better.

What year is your bike? I have a 2003 with a 350 ZZ4 but my right front mount is different than yours. What engine is in your bike?

Sorry I took so long. I have a 12 Gangsta