Vapor lock??

[zyoung]

Hey Jim,

Unfortunately, it did rear its ugly face on the way home. Didn't make it through Deland before it starting acting up. (Was acting strange when we left Two-Brothers as well. Very underpowered)
Basically did the same thing it has been doing, acting as if its not getting any gas. Wouldn't even hold my speed, only enough to keep it idling. When we would pull away from a stoplight it would run fine until it emptied the bowl in the carb, then wouldn't run. Since its runs fine on the reserve still, I switched to reserve and made it home.

Iron Maiden suggested that since I have replaced everything except the Pingle petcock, that being 10 years old, could be the problem. I spoke with a tech and he said that the Pingle has a rubber diaphragm that could be swelling up when it gets warm. Picked up a new one to install tomorrow. I'm hopeful for a good outcome. I will install tomorrow and if the rain holds out go out and see if it I can get it to heat up enough.
If it is the solution I owe Iron Maiden and my Dad (He mentioned it a while ago) a freshly cooked steak dinner.

I will gladly accept your help if this is not the solution. I will keep you updated for sure. Even coming over to stare at it and scratch our heads is accepted. Haha!!


-Zach

[CanuckHoss]

Hey Jim,

Unfortunately, it did rear its ugly face on the way home. Didn't make it through Deland before it starting acting up. (Was acting strange when we left Two-Brothers as well. Very underpowered)
Basically did the same thing it has been doing, acting as if its not getting any gas. Wouldn't even hold my speed, only enough to keep it idling. When we would pull away from a stoplight it would run fine until it emptied the bowl in the carb, then wouldn't run. Since its runs fine on the reserve still, I switched to reserve and made it home.

Iron Maiden suggested that since I have replaced everything except the Pingle petcock, that being 10 years old, could be the problem. I spoke with a tech and he said that the Pingle has a rubber diaphragm that could be swelling up when it gets warm. Picked up a new one to install tomorrow. I'm hopeful for a good outcome. I will install tomorrow and if the rain holds out go out and see if it I can get it to heat up enough.
If it is the solution I owe Iron Maiden and my Dad (He mentioned it a while ago) a freshly cooked steak dinner.

I will gladly accept your help if this is not the solution. I will keep you updated for sure. Even coming over to stare at it and scratch our heads is accepted. Haha!!


-Zach

Zach...it runs 100% off the Reserve? all the time?? Then that should in reality be easier to diagnose...gas cap..petcock...lines?

What about a line pinched from the main tank to the switch that switches between tanks?? What about the switch that switches between tanks as it may not be going to full flow when set on main tank?

What about just taking the fuel line from the main tank and plumbing it direct to the fuel pump...eliminate Reserve and the switch?? then trouble shoot.??

Just trying to get a steak too if I hit a Homerun!! Freshly cooked one not those stale day old cooked ones...lol

[Carl La Fong]

I think the whole "Pingle petcock" deal is over rated. Unless you have one with a reserve position, a brass and stainless ball valve from Home Depot will work just fine. I have one on my bike and it is trouble free

[CanuckHoss]

I think the whole "Pingle petcock" deal is over rated. Unless you have one with a reserve position, a brass and stainless ball valve from Home Depot will work just fine. I have one on my bike and it is trouble free

I tend to agree...But there is no screen on it right? Not saying there needs to be if there are filters after it...

[zyoung]

Carl - I got a new Petcock on Saturday, only reason I haven't put it in yet is for exactly the reason you stated. Still trying to decide between ball valve and Petcock.

Barry - Runs absolutely 100% on reserve. So switch forward is out of the problem. Replaced all the fuel lines and filter between tank to switch. Only thing that was old was the Petcock. Next piece to throw in, only happens when hot..... ALSO Barry, you and V-Man helped get Dad's V8 Chopper running, and also you two were there that morning during Bike Week to help as well. Technically, I owe you a steak already my friend.

-Zach

[CanuckHoss]

Carl - I got a new Petcock on Saturday, only reason I haven't put it in yet is for exactly the reason you stated. Still trying to decide between ball valve and Petcock.

Barry - Runs absolutely 100% on reserve. So switch forward is out of the problem. Replaced all the fuel lines and filter between tank to switch. Only thing that was old was the Petcock. Next piece to throw in, only happens when hot..... ALSO Barry, you and V-Man helped get Dad's V8 Chopper running, and also you two were there that morning during Bike Week to help as well. Technically, I owe you a steak already my friend.

-Zach

I can taste it already..lol

Any update?? Sure hoping that you are good now with the new petcock install. Problems like this that keep cropping over and over are a PITA....

My 502 trike is now Golden with the Edelbrock carb I bought and installed over winter (actually stole..lol..as I still need to settle with Dennis) no flooding out at lights in town...such a relief!!

[zyoung]

Unfortunately, petcock is installed and didn't fix my problem. So next idea was a cooler fan switch. Went to a FS120. Turns on at 180, off at 165. While the internal temperature of the motor was improved significantly, the external temperature was ridiculous and with the fan running constantly it heated everything up more. Sooooo.... my final conclusion is that this motor wants/needs the big block radiator that it was running for the last 5 years. So that is the next step I guess.

Anybody got a welder??

-Zach

[mmaupin]

Zach,

If you have not already done so, insulate those fuel lines. I had a vapor lock on my previous SB bike and used this product.

http://techflex.com/prod_T6F.asp

Not sure how your system is configured, but my SB had an inline fuel filter on the suction (inlet) line to the fuel pump. My theory is that with a small restriction in the fuel filter and with a higher ambient temperature, the fuel vaporizes between the filter and pump.

[mdwdvm]

Zach,

I agree that line insulation should be helpful. My fuel pump went out on my big block a little over a week ago so I decided that while I was at it I should make a few changes to help with the heat and potential vapor lock since the 502 is more prone. It's taken a bit of time and effort, but here's what I've done:

1) Replaced all fuel lines with fuel injection hose.
2) Insulated all fuel lines with heatshield sleeves http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/autom ... d-sleeving
3) Covered the bottom of the tank with heatshield lava barrier http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/autom ... ava-shield
4) Replaced the Holley Red Pump with a Holley Blue pump and Aeromotive regulator with tank return. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-13351 The return line set up should result in less wear and tear on my pump (and internal pump produced heat) and as well hopefully keep the fuel temperature lower through better fuel circulation and having less fuel sitting in the lines to be heated.
5) Added a digital fuel pressure gauge and inline sensor just before the front (main) inflow port into the Holley double pumper carb. https://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/s ... roduct=130 The gauge is small and can be easily located and they appear to be a good company. (Marv showed me one on his bike and recommended).
6) And of course replaced the filter between tank and pump.

I finished getting everything done and back together on Saturday and my fuel pressure was sitting at a perfect 7 psi with and without engine running. I started her up yesterday afternoon for an inaugural ride and my pressure was at 10-12 pounds and couldn't be adjusted back down with the regulator. After checking it out with an external pressure gauge, taking the regulator apart to make sure there weren't any product filings or issues inside (there weren't).............I put it back together with a hose from the return port on the regulator running to an empty gas can instead of the return line to the tank. Viola - pressure adjustable and holding at 7 psi. It appears the return line elbow with riser tube fashioned from a brake line is restricting the flow and back pressuring into the regulator. So, today I'll be redoing that elbow with better internal diameter tube and expect all will be good.

Sorry for the long message - but I guess what I'm saying is that while you're at it, there are a number of options to consider that may help reduce your vapor lock challenges. At least that's the result I'm looking for with the modifications I've made..........

Cheers,
Mike

[mdwdvm]

UPDATE - not intending to highjack your thread, but thought I would update the situation with my return line set-up. I pulled the return elbow and inserted a larger diameter riser tube. Back together and it was better, but still not good - lowest pressure I could attain was 8.5 psi. While working on it I happened to have rear of tank raised and turned on the switch - low and behold the pressure was 2.5 psi. Got to looking and the tank was pressing on my return line when it was in place and tightened down - so I rerouted the return line and all is good. I now have it dialed in to 7 psi where it's stable whether engine off, idling or higher rpm. Time and heat will tell whether my efforts have truly been worthwhile, but I'm optimistic.

Cheers,
Mike

[hogv8]

I've found at least on my set up that a fuel pressure gage Teed of from the fuel line to the carb does not read very accurately . I found that it is more accurate Teed right off the pump itself . I have two fuel pressure gages , one directly off the pump that I can see it I look behind the left side cover and a second gage Teed off the pump with a length of hose long enough to mount the second gage up behind the right valve cover where I can easily see it . Both gages are identical liquid filled and read exactally the same about 7-8 lbs .

[CanuckHoss]

Zach,,,I can;t see it being the radiator,,,it is a small block and should cool enough for sure...my Green Willys had more HP than a standard 385 HP SB and was a non issue even in Daytona with stock rad..

There is something we are all missing here....

"IF" it runs fine off the Reserve then it is NOT your rad...

Think way back to when you first had problems... the first couple times...what changed before those times if anything??

[V-MAN]

I agree with Barry, I was pushing 500HP at the rear wheel with a small block radiator ... never an issue. You do not need a BB rad in your trike, no idea why they ever installed one except to bring money into the shop? I still believe it is either fuel pressure (easy enough to check with a guage or the fuel lines are routed too close to intake or another heat source. Too many changes all at once and you loose track where the problem actually is ... these bikes just aren't that high tech they are very basic!

[CanuckHoss]

Barry - Runs absolutely 100% on reserve. So switch forward is out of the problem. Replaced all the fuel lines and filter between tank to switch. Only thing that was old was the Petcock. Next piece to throw in, only happens when hot..... ALSO Barry, you and V-Man helped get Dad's V8 Chopper running, and also you two were there that morning during Bike Week to help as well. Technically, I owe you a steak already my friend.

-Zach

As I mentioned before plumb the main tank direct to the fuel pump, and totally eliminate the Reserve and Reserve switch. Just because it switches to Reserve and works on Reserve does not mean the switch is fully opening in the "main tank" position...assuming anything at this point could be a mistake.

[V8Bikers]

I mentioned this to Zach but wanted to include it in this thread as well. Some years ago, there was a rash of issues with the fuel sending units where a piece, cork material? would break off and be floating around the tank. I am wondering (I know a long shot) if this may be the cause and it is intermittently blocking something or causing these issues?

Also, maybe something to do with the tank itself with venting or other issues. I suggested that he remove the tank and get a gallon jug or other small container, stick the feed line in there securely, strap it somewhere and try it out. At least, then, you would be able to narrow it down some.

[mdwdvm]

I've found at least on my set up that a fuel pressure gage Teed of from the fuel line to the carb does not read very accurately . I found that it is more accurate Teed right off the pump itself .

Jack - with the return system I have in place - the pressure off the pump is not helpful as it will be around 14psi and not reflective of what is being delivered to the carb. The sensor needed to be located downstream from the regulator in order to read pressure going to the carb, which meant placing it somewhere on one of the lines to the carb inlets. While either line could have been used, I chose to go with the line to the front inlet since it's the main. Using an external manual gauge hooked up and reading simultaneously, it seems the digital gauge as it's located is reading accurately.

[hogv8]

I agree if using a regulator , I don't with the Holley Red.

[tjy]

The reason the trike HAD a bb rad. was I was having a hell of a time with a leak in the original rad, tried JB weld, barrs stop leak, black pepper, and I believe an egg. Along comes BW several yrs ago. Went to Marv's setup (on ridgewood) They took out rad. lent me his truck, took rad. to robins rad. shop, they tested, no leak, back to Marv's back into trike, fu*king leaked!! They had this oversized rad. on their table They thought it would work..The rest is history. I agree he needs to move the reserve switch out of line and try. I hope he doesn't trade for a slingshot, as I think he'll miss the V8

[CanuckHoss]

I hope he doesn't trade for a slingshot, as I think he'll miss the V8

[zyoung]

Going to get my hands into it this weekend, first install a pressure gauge, then bypass reserve switch, and go from there.... You guys are right I'm probably overlooking something that's staring me in the face. I'll keep you updated.

Probably be calling Hanginon (Jim) to see if he wants to come take a look at what's going on....

As far as the Polaris Slingshot, we went and looked at one but I don't foresee one sitting in my garage soon. Would buy another V8 before doing that. Slingshot is lacking horsepower.

Thanks again for the continued assistance with this. With any luck she will run again without needing reserve to get home.

-Zach

[CanuckHoss]

OK Zach...one month has gone by...any resolve?????????? or do I have to come down there!!!!

[zyoung]

OK Zach...one month has gone by...any resolve?????????? or do I have to come down there!!!!

Hey Barry,
I've been working so much that I haven't sat down and worked with it. We are coming up on some slow weeks so I'm gonna tinker with it then. As far as coming down to Florida, I think you need too! It's been to long my friend.
I need to do something with it very soon. I need to ride. Hope all is well.

-Zach

[CanuckHoss]

Thanks Zach,,,good luck..maybe it will just disappear...all is well here..still waiting the big call...take care