DAVID & V8Choppers

[Els]

We've got to get David Ward signed up here. I can't let the cat totally out of the bag (I promised), but I'm going to dangle a worm here....

Dave's got a serious yellow type chopper coming. I saw it at Stan's painter. It's going to be bad bad bad, it's nastier than my 520 ponies (possibly north of 600 hp?), and hopefully unveiled at Myrtle Beach if at all possible. I'm really excited for him.

I've already said more than I should (I'll blame it on tonight's Bloody Mary's) and hopefully Dave will find time to get on this board before or right at Myrtle and tell us what's happening. You guys are going to wet the bed.

Els

[Els]

Mike,

Dave's on the road about 99% of the time. He's the Royal Purple Oil guy and travels significantly. About the smartest guy I know when it comes to oil.

Because of David's relationship to Royal Purple, he has some awesome contacts and friends including Richard Maskin, owner of DART MOTORS. This was a major influence in my getting the V8Chopper when I did. I've never been happier or more awestruck with a motor in my life.

I'm hoping Dave will get enough breathing time between his travel stops to check in here and sign on. I'll be seeing him at Myrtle Beach and he's going to Lacrosse and Sturgis as well.

I don't know why I'm so excited about the bikes and trikes he's fixing to put on the road. I was feeling pretty smug that it was ME who was going to be the big dog with the choppers. Dave personally had 4 V8Choppers at Daytona and I rode them all. Looks and performance were top notch especially the two with the BIG DART motors.

Dave is simply redefining "BIG".

Els

[Els]

Just talked to Stan today and heard something else pretty cool...

He just finished his first V8Chopper with the other DART motor that will be replacing the ZZ4. Said it's the same block as mine just detuned some. That's a 400 c.i. smallblock. Stan said it was quite a bit snottier than the ZZ4 at idle but he hadn't rode it yet. Probably today and I hope to hear a ride report.

I hope I'm not speaking out of school but I suppose that will mean there would be three different motor choices. The 2 DART motors and his standard smallblock. Whenever I rode a "stock" chopper, I thought it had loads of umphhh. Anyone who's not used to a V8 bike and was transitioning from perhaps a Harley or similar would wet the bed. Either of the two DART motors would skeer the average bear, ha ha.

I suspect they'll have some of everything in a few weeks at Myrtle Beach. I'll be hanging at their trailer often while there so anyone reading this and going to MB, please catch me there and let's ride.

Els

[Els]

Dave,

First, WELCOME TO THE BOARD! Great group of folks here as with the other board. Not many who post often (unfortunately) but lots of members and readers and an excellent administration. I really like the way the board is set up and the ability to easily post pictures, videos, etc. Hope you'll come here often.

Although I'm really looking forward to Myrtle Beach, I'm real sorry I can't make Lacrosse. I sense a lot of "hot rods" will be there including some of the Wisconsin/Minnesota guys. I can smell burning rubber already. I hope you have the opportunity while there to get into a few friendly street challenges and see who is the giver and receiver of some ass kicking, ha ha. Within this V8 bike community, there's some really seriously great hardware out there. It will be the ol' "bigblock vs smallblock" saga that I enjoy at the track. Just remember, Gary and I are on your team brother.

Having 600+ hp and similar torque on a bike that weighs a gnat over 900 lbs is incredible. I can't tell you how much fun my "little" 520 hp DART motor is on my chopper. There's a few guys who didn't get to ride mine at Daytona who I'd like to see ride it at Myrtle just to get their reaction. WB and RR in particular.

You've thrown the gauntlet down on your very first post here! Suggesting the "juice" is cheating or dishonest hp is about as much fun as the bigblock vs smallblock scraps. I personally love the nitrous and was ready to bolt a plate and bottle onto the new chopper, however, motor only has me pretty happy, ok scrap that, VERY HAPPY...for now and probably as long as I have this bike. It's a wild ride!

Good seeing you here...welcome aboard.

Els

P.S. Pictures whenever able! We're picture junkies!

[V8 Perv]

WELCOME TO THE BOARD DAVID!

WILL BE READY TO RIDE THE 600+ HP
TRIKE IN LACROSSE. WILL HAVE MY
BIG BLOCK TRIKE THERE TRYING TO
KEEP UP.

[AR]

Well....I agree that NOS is cheating when it comes to engineering, but thems the breaks! And for $1200 us financial cripples can get a taste of what goes on with 500+ horses without even taking the heads off. Not to mention that with regular juice use I would be taking the heads off anyway but I reckon with measured application I'll get a few years out of it.

love the choppers!

[KISS]

Anything that adds horsepower is not cheating!I could put dynamite in my ass if it makes my bike goe faster!

Uups,and welcome David!

[Els]

Couple of comments here....

First and most important, GLAD THE SITE'S BACK UP! That was a long and painful problem. Thanks to you guys who fixed it!

Second, and very important, back to welcoming David to the board!

Third, and important, glad to see some talk about HP and motors. No disrespect to the "other" board but Dave puts up a post about changing his name to reflect the choppers he's had and new ones coming and the motors he's working on and almost all the chatter centers around the names ("Flaming" vs "Chopper") instead of the bikes/trikes, performance and HP. I don't get that in total but WTF do I know ? I'm sure that's not a product of the board but rather guys having some fun and yanking chains so I won't mount any high horse here. I guess I get more excited about the motors than the names. I'm no damn fun.

As far as the nitrous talk, I'm 100% behind the "not cheating" comment. It's another way of making HP and that's all good in my book. When one considers the economics of nitrous, it is an amazingly efficient means of making BIG HP. You could today order a 150 hp system, complete, for right around $350.00 through Jeg's or Summit. Just looked at a Sniper system that includes bottle, plumbing, solenoids...everything but the nitrous fill. That's less than $2.50 p/hp which is phenominal. Rob, the only thing we've hurt with LOTS of nitrous application is pistons and we expected it. You put the juice to the hyperteutectic pistons found in most of these crate motors, it's only a matter of time. You've got to go with a good forged piston if you're going to consistently use nitrous or put a good sized hit to it. That however is a whole new subject...

David, not sure if your bike or trike with those big ass motors will be in Myrtle Beach and I'll miss seeing them in Lacrosse. Please keep us posted with your impressions and/or who you've got to race with.

Elliot

[AR]

hyperteutectic...

oh man, I got a lot to learn.

Also, when I said $1200 that was back when the AU$ was like worth US$0.55cents, I'm happy to say we are almost even money now but thats got its dark side too. That 1200 also included the must have chrome bracket and bottle from Marco braided lines and custom purge system bits. I dont think even for tight wad me that a $300 system would make it on my BH.

[Els]

Hello Elliot,

"First I want to say that I am not slamming a Juiced engine I am simply partial to natural horsepower."

"It does not look promising to have my bikes for at least the beginning of Myrtle Beach right now. If Stan is able to get them done I will most likely send a trailer to get them so I can have them for the end of the show..."

"I will absolutely be headed back to the drag strip once the last trike is done. There will be a lot of changes made with the race track in mind. 10.4 at 133 was not really fast enough with the white 500 horsepower trike. The next trike will go into the 9's at around 145 in the quarter on pump gas without question. "

David Ward

Ok David, response time....

To your nitrous statement.... yeah yeah yeah yeah, I know you're a purist, perfectionist, motor primadonna.
To your not having the bikes/trikes 'til the end of MB....NOOOO! I leave Wednesday pm. Got to see (ride?) them!
To your drag track comment and "10.4 @ 133 was not really fast enough...." you da' man! Why do we have to live 1,000 miles apart?

If you start getting the heebee jeebee's, you can always ride my "little 520 hp" bike at MB.

Els

[okie]

Yes inquiring minds want to know how to lose your liecense faster

[Els]

[quote="wildman"]David, I would sure like to hear more about those Dart engines and Richard Maskin. I have been paying attention all along to every word you have posted. I don't know that much about engines at all and would really enjoy hearing more about what is in the engines to make that kind of horsepower.


I won't steal David's thunder with what the newest and biggest DART is about for his bikes and trikes but I can tell you a bit about what my DART is made of.

My block is a 400 CID DART small block. I'm going by memory but I believe bore is 4.00 and stroke 3.75.
The motor is making (true) 520 HP @ 6,000 rpm.
Torque is appx 500 ft./lbs.
Compression ratio: 10.5 to 1
Heads: Dart Pro 1 aluminum with dual valve springs
Crank: Eagle forged steel
Rods: Skat forged steel I-beam, 5.700 long, full float
Pistons: Keith Black
Rings: Hastings Moly
Bearings: King Performance
Cam: Comp Hydraulic Roller
Lifters: Comp Hydraulic Roller
Rockers: Comp Aluminum Roller
Pushrods: Comp 5/16 .80 wall, one piece moly
Fasteners: ARP
Timing Chain: Cloys Tru-Roller

I reference "true" above because GM claimed the 502 was making 502 hp but my dyno results with big block bikes and trike never showed close. There was a lot of internet noise about this and although there were conflicting results, I walked away feeling I was cheated by GM's claims and hype. There was either disproportionate hp being lost through the drive train or their dyno was awfully generous. Kind of like my getting on one scale and it saying I weigh 220 but the one in the doctor's office and everywhere else says 240. Hmmm. This doesn't at all diminish the fact that the 502 on the Boss is a kick ass, wicked fast machine with LOTS of attitude. I enjoyed them for many years and still do today.

This "520" DART feels tremendously stronger and I suspect DART motors dyno results are a bit more realistic than GM's advertising and marketing dyno. These guys work with the big NHRA and IHRA hardware and aren't as inclined to throw out fluff claims. Again, not trying to open any cans of worms here just stating what I've felt as a significant difference in the power delivery and feel. Part of this is tranny related I'm sure and part is weight differential (fully 350 lbs or more). In any case, the 520 DART is a monster motor on the V8Chopper bike or trike (although I've only ridden the 500 hp DART trike) and I can't imagine what the extra 80 - 100 hp is going to be like on Dave's hardware.

I'm curious myself about Dave's motors and how they're making the extra hp. I know they went to a bigger block and I'll rely on him for the rest.

Els

[Els]

Elliot,

Very well explained on the 520 Dart. No additional info on that needed. The next 3 engines are all over 600 hp and over 600 ft. pounds of torque. The challenge is to make that power in a short package that will fit in the chopper. They did it. Dart has some of the best talent around. Their Pro Stock guys assemble Stan's engines between races... how cool is that....

I'll keep my fingers crossed for Myrtle beach.

David

David, I think it's very cool . Especially in light of certain GM crate engines coming out of GM's Teluca, Mexico plant these days. Just doesn't seem right to have the "Hecho en Mexico" label on a Chevy (GM) motor. Some will argue that they "have to compete" but I view it as simply cheap labor and an effort to make more profit. I think they've done 90,000,000 units that way so as my favorite saying goes these days; "it is what it is".

I read some stories (the documented type, not bull crap) about some of the DART guys like Richard and Dick. Their history going back to the glorious days of 60's and 70's drag racing is fascinating. I would suspect they would surround themselves with the very best. You look at what their motors today are doing in the Pro Stock circuit and there's no question about the engineering and integrity of these motors.

At the drag track, DART PRO 1 heads are some of the hottest and most respected valve train commodies there. They sure do good on that motor of mine. Chris has repeatedly told me how happy he is with the new cam and heads as well.

If you get your new bike or trike later in the week at Myrtle Beach, I'll be gone as I'm leaving Wednesday night. Whew, now maybe my bike won't look like a little wimp next to yours, ha ha.

Elliot

[AR]

You know something...my possibly over-spec'd el'smallblocko has given me more joy than anything else outside of the family green circle, and like I would do for a family member I must step up in defence of the quiet majority here...we have feelings too you know!

[Els]

Rob,

Uh oh, here comes the ol' communication thing being 10,000 miles apart.... ....I'm not sure exactly what you said but let me offer a few things here.

I can't speak for David on this thread but can relate that neither he nor I are trashing the GM motors or saying they're no good. I've got 2 other GM's in my garage at home and love both. One is an LS2 with a blower, the other in my wife's Tahoe.

Here in the states there's a bit of resentment amongst most folks that we've exported so much, especially with manufacturing. Shit, EVERYTHING we see has a "Made In China" label these days. Things that this country was known for and damn proud of, furniture manufacturing, steel, just about everything has been either fully imported or our companys like GM set up plants overseas and cheap shit labor now does it. All the while, we have unemployment issues, severe trade deficit, and foreign debt issues that are staggering and a real bone up most citizen's asses here. Our politicians have sold us out.

For the above reasons, we hate seeing things like our beloved Chevy motors made in Mexico or anywhere else for that fact. Most of us go back to the '55 Chevy and later days, love 'em, and consider them "all American". With this "Made in Mexico" label, they're no longer all American and it simply changes things. Additionally, they may be just fine for my wife's go to the grocery store efforts, however, for serious race application, I would question the tooling and assembly characteristics of the GM motors coming from Mexico.

There used to be a lot of pride associated with the "Made in America" label. Now, 99% of the shit one buys out of catalogs like Custom Chrome, Chrome Specialties, and such are Taiwan crap. Shitty chroming, pot metal, poor fit and workmanship.

If your comment had nothing to do with Dave and my chatter about the ZZ4's made south of the border, disregard this post. As you may note, I'm a bit sensitive to what's going on in the states these days with respect to this and other issues. Not trying to be political with these posts but rather point out some facts or history and definitely not intending to make anyone feel bad about their Chevy motor.

Elliot

[AR]

Rob,

Uh oh, here comes the ol' communication thing being 10,000 miles apart.... ....I'm not sure exactly what you said but let me offer a few things here.

Elliot

Yep, I wasnt sure about what I was trying to say either I just started jumping up and down with excitement about the casting of a shadow on a major component in my beloved BH...but now I see that theres a whole other issue here that was driving the lead up conversation. I guess that in respect to the engine, my comment was supposed to be that the crate 355 in my bike has performed exactly as expected and proven to be most reliable 'upper-medium po' (ie; not quite hi-po). In relation to the outsourcing of manufacturing issue I know squat so am pulling my head in right now.

[okie]

Mike don't let Monty hear you talk like that about his motors !!

[EAGLE]

Brother David,

Welcome to the frey Bro'. Just what we need, another troublemaker .

[Clint44]

Just so you guys don't get too smug about those Dart engines but don't the raw forgings for Eagle and Scat come from China? The final machining is done in the USA,though. Very good parts but to say they're made in the USA is a little misleading.

[okie]

Yeah,how about that chit man !! Made in America is going the way of the purple goose!!

[Els]

Elliot,

Well said.... I couldn't agree more....

Darts blocks and almost everything in the engine is made here in the US. They have also been designed for strength vs. just good enough to do the job.

David

David, glad you posted on this. To suggest you were being "misleading" I thought was inappropriate considering you having said "almost." I also think there's a distinct difference (again as you point out) between what's happening with respect to tooling and assembly between the Chevy crate motors and DART motors.

None of this conversation was intended to imply that only DART is good or Chevy crate motors aren't good. It was getting in a jab that too much shit is being done outside our borders by foreign, unskilled, non-dedicated labor and that what has been considered an all American icon, Chevrolet (you know...apple pie, baseball, et al) would do what they're doing in Mexico with Mexican labor.

I don't know about some of you guys but between Mexico and China, my ass is pretty chapped. I hate NAFTA and "dial 1 for English".

Clint, my beef is with the politicians who support and incent companies to go outside our country and foreign companies coming in, not with Chevy crate motors, Boss Hoss, etc. Having rode the balls off my 520 DART the last week, I feel very SMUG which ain't a bad thing.

Again, my intent was not a Chevy vs Dart or Boss Hoss vs V8Chopper thing but rather what I reference above. I continue to stick with "Made in China" and "Made in Mexico"....can kiss my ass.

Els

[Clint44]

Clint,

I just stumbled across your post.

If you count 5 posts above yours you will see that I said "almost everything" in the engines are made in the USA. If you are going to accuse me of misleading someone.... make sure I am. The Dart engines were designed for the motorcycles in every way. It makes no sense to spend more on a crank on a chopper that weighs 940 pounds. The Eagle cranks as you say are good parts and will not break in a chopper.

The fact is that the GM crate engines are built in mexico with not so skilled labor and the Dart engines are built in an NHRA Pro Stock shop by some of the most talented and skilled people in the country.

If you ever get the chance to ride a chopper with a 520 Dart then you too would understand what it's about.

David Ward

Didn't mean to raise your hackles,Dave. That wasn't my intent. However,those "not so skilled laborers" aren't doing too bad of a job building GM's crate engines. Their failure rate and problem count has been pretty low. Some Dart engines are using Chinese-forged internals. Like you and Elliot,I would prefer All-USA stuff but what do you do? Some of the Chinese is obviously pretty good,,some of it isn't,,just like US stuff.

I've ridden bikes that are a lot faster & quicker than a Dart V8 chopper so yes,I do understand what it's about.
My turbo/nitrous prostreet bike went 9.40's @ 158+mph and my turbo/alky Funnybike went 7.70's at almost 180.

[Clint44]

Clint, my beef is with the politicians who support and incent companies to go outside our country and foreign companies coming in, not with Chevy crate motors, Boss Hoss, etc. Having rode the balls off my 520 DART the last week, I feel very SMUG which ain't a bad thing.

Again, my intent was not a Chevy vs Dart or Boss Hoss vs V8Chopper thing but rather what I reference above. I continue to stick with "Made in China" and "Made in Mexico"....can kiss my ass.

Els

I agree,100%. And anything with 520hp is ok to be smug about.

[Clint44]

I haven't been on anything really quick in the last couple of years so I would love to take you up on a ride on one of those Dart choppers or trikes,Dave. The factory is only about 250 miles from here and I've thought about cruising up there on my 57 trike one of these days. Maybe I can get Phil & James to meet me along the way,somewhere.

[okie]

I'm up for a ride to Stan's ,has to be a weekend though,or just a ride, cell 831-261-2345