Holiday Topic - Horsepower Numbers

[Els]

A lot has been said and argued on this and it's a difficult one to talk about. First, there were all kinds of fingers pointed that GM Performance was full of crap with the "502/502" claims. Salley Chevrolet did some dyno testing and there's been lots of articles on this. My conclusion was the crate 502 had 502 c.i. but not 502 HP at the crank.

Then there's all the BS dynos out there giving inflated numbers for bragging rights.

Then there's all the claims of how much HP is lost through the drive train.

Then there's the fucking decals or paint anyone can paint on their bike with over exaggerated HP claims...

Hard to go anywhere with this topic. There seems to be more BS out there than fact.

Els

[EAGLE]

Brother Els,

You are very right. The Beast for example says "540 Cubic Inches, 750HP, Any Questions? This was there when I bought it from Mike. He told me that it Dyno'd at 749HP (engine Only) but I wasn't there so.......................... The one thing on the Beast that IS true without question, is on the rear fender. It reads "Size Does Matter"!!!!!!

EAGLE!!!!!

[Ric]

It would be interesting to see a 502 crate motor on a stand, running up it's HP and Torque curves at the claimed RPM's etc. I bought my bike with 502 C.I. V8 502 H.P. painted on the back fender.

I know for certain, the back tire isn't seeing much of that.

I just shut up, and eat most of the bikes and cars around here alive!

[Els]

It would be interesting to see a 502 crate motor on a stand, running up it's HP and Torque curves at the claimed RPM's etc. I bought my bike with 502 C.I. V8 502 H.P. painted on the back fender.

I know for certain, the back tire isn't seeing much of that.

I just shut up, and eat most of the bikes and cars around here alive!

The best I ever saw on a quality dyno was 346 RWHP. That was with a performance distributor and a Demon carb. It was lower prior to those adds.

Els

[Ric]

I have a standard HEI ignition... but have a 750 demon carb. So I might be close....

A fellow in Barry's town, works with a company that builds performance engines. I tossed the idea of a Roots or Paxton Supercharger at him... He checked the specs on a 502 crate motor, and suggested that it would be an ideal platform to set it up with. Change the Carb to suit the newer air activity. And that it wouldn't change fuel performance at idle... and only marginal at cruise.... but getting into the ponies... She'll drink her fill!

The next thought was... the blower will take up a fair amount of fuel tank realestate. So, he thought that if we extended the tank to fill in the gap between the handle bar risers, and the existing leading edge of the tank... about a 4" span, as the 502 frame is longer. AND the fact that most of the centre of the gas tank is minimal useage, because of the high tunnel that makes room for the existing Air cleaner.

He figures I'd probably gain a gallon. So would probably have about 9 gals. of usable fuel. And if I actually DID all that... I'd put in an auxilliary tank under the seat storage... fetching about two more gallons.


So

[Els]

Anyone wanting or considering putting a blower on a 502 should talk to Geezer. For some of the folks that haven't been around during the old days, his GEEZERMOBILE was a BH big block trike with a centrifical blower. It was beautifully done. As nice as anything I had seen. I'm sure Geez has all the numbers and knows all the nuances associated with going down that road.

If you guys do start that conversation, please have him post some pics here. I miss seeing that piece of art...

Els

[Ric]

We should chat up Bob to see if he has pics of his old Geezermobile... and have him post 'em....

[Ric]

David... do you have a link to the Dart website? It's a pain in the patoot... to try to find it in Google. I tried a few combos... but no sale.

Thanks.

[Els]

David... do you have a link to the Dart website? It's a pain in the patoot... to try to find it in Google. I tried a few combos... but no sale.

Thanks.

www.dartheads.com

[Tom]

See if this works.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/v8cyclesg ... 1/pic/list

Or...
[imghttp://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/5703399/sn/1587663746/name/n_a][/img]

[Geezer]

Wow:

Brought back some memories of the old "Geezermobile".

I had a few shots left in my picture program, since having dumped
several hard drives the last 5 years. Tried to send to WM for
posting, but the files were all screwed up.

After looking at the pictures carefully, I noticed they were taken
about a year or so before I quit working on it, as several things
were added.

The good old days

Thanks Tom and WM for finding those old photos.

PS - Yes Dave, a Mac is in my future. This windows shit is driving me
nuts..........

[Ric]

So Bob, that looks like a Paxton Supercharger set up. Maybe if you find the time, give us some detail on how it worked, was it a finicky bugger to keep riding reliably? What kind of maintenance did it need? Many break downs...

Positives?
Negatives?
General cost?
How serious of mods?

Thanks Tom for posting the pics...
Thanks Dave for the Dart link...

So Geez... if you feel the intel is too detailed for on a general post... maybe e-mail me, as I'm considering such a project. It's gorgeous!!! my e-mail: kurohyou@shaw.ca
Thanks m'man!

[Els]

Thanks Dave for the Dart link...

Call me anything but don't call me "Dave".

Els

[Ric]

Dave's a little TOO casual................ gotcha.

[Geezer]

[AR]

Hey Geez,

Maybe i missed it but i havent seen any talk about how you thought it was insanity and you would never do it again??

[Els]

Geez,

I always lusted for the Geezermobile. Most bad ass trike out there and about as beautifully clean a job as it gets. I would have really enjoyed piloting that one at the track .

Then there's the Willy's in the background. You have no idea how close I came to calling you after Steve Barr called and said; "let's buy it". Although Jeanette would have enjoyed cruising through town or making it our date ride vehicle, getting in an out via climbing through the window was probably asking too much...

Els

[Geezer]

Hey Geez,

Maybe i missed it but i havent seen any talk about how you thought it was insanity and you would never do it again??............Aussie Rob.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rob, I have fond memories, but yes, I would never do it again. Number one is the
rear suspension of a BH is badly designed and can't take the HP, shit don't even
go there......

Number two, to put this blower on the trike was a monster, regarding a FI type fuel
system, tons of carb mods, custom built carb hat, and the list goes on an on. Total
cost without labor, just parts was I would guess about 7-9K.

The one time we had it on the dyno, it did about 700 rwhp, at a 17-1 AFR.........sheet........
12 lbs boost I think, I think the pistons were a little lighter, as I found some alum on the
plugs..... Damn thing should have blowen, but it didn't.

When it hit boost, it was crazy, almost more than a nos hit. Rev like a chain saw.
Don't forget the worked Dart 345 heads and the comp blower cam. I think I just got
tired of working on it so much.

Plus remember, I have gotten older........haha

As you know, the trike is no more, melted down and is now a Nissan somewhere in this
world. RIP. Plus a death took place with the new ownership...very sad, and took some
wind out of my sails.


Lately, I am into chasing chicks at the old folks home, and driving a go cart...

[zenbiker]

Geez
I hear you! I'm older than you and am tiring as well. Great to see you posting here.
Still riding the Boss on trips in the summer but less exuberance and smaller testicles.
Elliot..still crazy after all these years?...Joe

[Els]

Geez
I hear you! I'm older than you and am tiring as well. Great to see you posting here.
Still riding the Boss on trips in the summer but less exuberance and smaller testicles.
Elliot..still crazy after all these years?...Joe

Doc Joe,

It is now that much closer to those good ol' Yahoo days many of us remember and enjoyed with you posting here! Good to hear from you. This is of course the "A" place for a couple of politically incorrect types like you and I, ha ha .

There has also been some good performance stuff going on here and some real solid wrenches who participate. Very good board...welcome aboard!


Elliot

[EAGLE]

See if this works.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/v8cyclesg ... 1/pic/list

Or...
[imghttp://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/5703399/sn/1587663746/name/n_a][/img]

That fine maching went up for sale a little too soon before I was ready to buy. That is the one trike that I wish that I could have got my hands on. Beautiful as it was badass! Grandfather may have been looking out for us though as to what actually ended up being the tragic outcome of that sale.

[SQ4MN]

I am a new guy next to you guys and hardly ever saw a V8 bike till l bought one a little over a year ago. I always seen some Boss Hoss bikes when I went to Sturgis but never really checked them out. The trike that is pictured here that was Geezers is the best looking one I ever seen, I can see why Eagle and some others would have loved to get ahold of that. Dave

[hogv8]

Besides the blower I'm pretty sure Geezer had a belt driven water pump and fan . Sure looked nice without the electric fan on the radiator .

Jack

[gaston 2005 502]

Jack,

i Sent you a non motorcycle related PM, it's a machinist question related PM any assistance is appreciated.

Darryl

[Wild Bill]

"...there were all kinds of fingers pointed that GM Performance was full of crap with the "502/502" claims. Salley Chevrolet did some dyno testing and there's been lots of articles on this. My conclusion was the crate 502 had 502 c.i. but not 502 HP at the crank." Elliot

El,
This information is coming as a bit of a shock to me. Over the past 9-10 years I've repeatedly heard that the ZZ502 typically dyno's out above 502hp and as high as 525hp. Hot Rod Magazine recently dyno'd a fresh, out of the crate, ZZ502 and got 518HP out of it and a high of 525HP with some additional tweeking.

GM was notorious in the muscle car days for grossly underrating their big block HP numbers for insurance reasons. My perception has consistantly been that they under-promise and over deliver at least when it comes to HP numbers on their GMPP Products.

Just trying to defend my beloved big block!!!



Bill